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	<title>Comments on: Commentary: Black workers hurt themselves by not taking bottom-rung jobs (Tannette Johnson-Elie)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/</link>
	<description>African-American culture, news commentary, politics</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: play sudoku</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8411</link>
		<dc:creator>play sudoku</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8411</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed reading what you wrote, you should give http://www.sudokulive.net a look for Sudoku puzzles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed reading what you wrote, you should give <a href="http://www.sudokulive.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.sudokulive.net</a> a look for Sudoku puzzles.</p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8401</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2005 00:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8401</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Where is the logic in singling out Black Americans as having a problem when it is an American problem?&lt;/i&gt;



Where &lt;i&gt;then &lt;/i&gt;the logic of calling ourselves Black Americans, or using the terminology black music, or having Black history month. since where all "Americans"? If you are going to make that statement, then you must know that it goes both ways.



Problems that happen in let's say the Johnson household is a Johnson problem, not a Chicago problem. We can roll with the "village raises the child" mantra, but in the end no matter how embarassing it is, it begins with the Johnsons. As much as I love this country, I for one am not going to wait for "America" to become perfect for black folks. My job for my household is to see to it that my kids are equiped to be the best that they can be.



What is so confusing about all of this is that when a person (like myself) sides with let's say conservatism, and completely ditches the term black and just goes with American (which I do not), that person is ridiculed throughout the community as being as &lt;i&gt;sellout &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i&gt;ashamed of their race&lt;/i&gt;. I believe Armstrong Williams took some heat for this (I could be wrong).



In the "few" years that I have been on this earth, the one thing that I have learned a long time ago is that in the black community, sadly you cannot have it both ways. I am completely with you that it is an American problem, but we cannot expect others to do what we can do for ourselves. I cannot tell you the mothers (who some of them happened to be poor and black) ask me to discipline their child because of a father who was not there. Some say that Cosby was being too hard on po' folks, well I can point to a lot of po' folks that will say he wasn't hard enough. And you know what? It isn't about being "hard"---its about caring enough to do something about it--including telling the whole truth.



You too take care of yourself and enjoy the weekend. Good chatting with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Where is the logic in singling out Black Americans as having a problem when it is an American problem?</i></p>
<p>Where <i>then </i>the logic of calling ourselves Black Americans, or using the terminology black music, or having Black history month. since where all &#8220;Americans&#8221;? If you are going to make that statement, then you must know that it goes both ways.</p>
<p>Problems that happen in let&#8217;s say the Johnson household is a Johnson problem, not a Chicago problem. We can roll with the &#8220;village raises the child&#8221; mantra, but in the end no matter how embarassing it is, it begins with the Johnsons. As much as I love this country, I for one am not going to wait for &#8220;America&#8221; to become perfect for black folks. My job for my household is to see to it that my kids are equiped to be the best that they can be.</p>
<p>What is so confusing about all of this is that when a person (like myself) sides with let&#8217;s say conservatism, and completely ditches the term black and just goes with American (which I do not), that person is ridiculed throughout the community as being as <i>sellout </i>and <i>ashamed of their race</i>. I believe Armstrong Williams took some heat for this (I could be wrong).</p>
<p>In the &#8220;few&#8221; years that I have been on this earth, the one thing that I have learned a long time ago is that in the black community, sadly you cannot have it both ways. I am completely with you that it is an American problem, but we cannot expect others to do what we can do for ourselves. I cannot tell you the mothers (who some of them happened to be poor and black) ask me to discipline their child because of a father who was not there. Some say that Cosby was being too hard on po&#8217; folks, well I can point to a lot of po&#8217; folks that will say he wasn&#8217;t hard enough. And you know what? It isn&#8217;t about being &#8220;hard&#8221;&#8212;its about caring enough to do something about it&#8211;including telling the whole truth.</p>
<p>You too take care of yourself and enjoy the weekend. Good chatting with you.</p>
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		<title>By: DarkStar</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8400</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 22:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8400</guid>
		<description>Let me "end" with this:



My younger cousin worked at a franchise restaraunt. The store she worked at was frequented by senior citizens. If it matters, they were Jewish senior citizens. The staff was primarily Black.



When I went there to support my kin, I noticed all of the wait staff having conversations with the older patrons. And they knew them by name; Miss X., Mr. Y., Mrs. Z.



I caught on quickly. They were working the older patrons for tips. I thought that they realized that many of the older patrons were probably somewhat lonely and this was a good way to "get out and meet people." The conversation resulted in higher tips. My cousin confirmed it.



Later, a new manager came in. Within 1 week, most of the Black staff was terminated. A white waitress came to my cousin's house and said it was because the new manager thought, IN GENERAL,  Black wait staff were bad. She offered to testify if people sued. My cousin, and the rest of the Black staff that were fired, turned down the offer and went about their lives.



The store closed, primarily because of a fall in receipts.



The new wait staff that manager hired, was primarily white.



Have a good weekend. Enjoy the family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me &#8220;end&#8221; with this:</p>
<p>My younger cousin worked at a franchise restaraunt. The store she worked at was frequented by senior citizens. If it matters, they were Jewish senior citizens. The staff was primarily Black.</p>
<p>When I went there to support my kin, I noticed all of the wait staff having conversations with the older patrons. And they knew them by name; Miss X., Mr. Y., Mrs. Z.</p>
<p>I caught on quickly. They were working the older patrons for tips. I thought that they realized that many of the older patrons were probably somewhat lonely and this was a good way to &#8220;get out and meet people.&#8221; The conversation resulted in higher tips. My cousin confirmed it.</p>
<p>Later, a new manager came in. Within 1 week, most of the Black staff was terminated. A white waitress came to my cousin&#8217;s house and said it was because the new manager thought, IN GENERAL,  Black wait staff were bad. She offered to testify if people sued. My cousin, and the rest of the Black staff that were fired, turned down the offer and went about their lives.</p>
<p>The store closed, primarily because of a fall in receipts.</p>
<p>The new wait staff that manager hired, was primarily white.</p>
<p>Have a good weekend. Enjoy the family.</p>
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		<title>By: EG</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8402</link>
		<dc:creator>EG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 15:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8402</guid>
		<description>"Despite a diploma, many students are not equipped but the math, English and basic work ethic skills to work in positions where the pay is higher than minimum wage." should be



"Despite a diploma, many students are not equipped with the math, English and basic work ethic skills to work in positions where the pay is higher than minimum wage."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Despite a diploma, many students are not equipped but the math, English and basic work ethic skills to work in positions where the pay is higher than minimum wage.&#8221; should be</p>
<p>&#8220;Despite a diploma, many students are not equipped with the math, English and basic work ethic skills to work in positions where the pay is higher than minimum wage.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: EG</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8410</link>
		<dc:creator>EG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 15:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8410</guid>
		<description>Allow me to add my two cents to the discussion.



1. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think you mean that the work habits of most blacks are different in purpose and intensity. The examples given have been lower-pay employees. That does not infer that Mr. Parsons of TimeWarner works less than his white CEO counterpart or Senator Obama works less than Senator Salazar. I believe the point is that the work habits of most black folk in &lt;b&gt;low wage jobs&lt;/b&gt; are different in purpose and intensity than immigrants.

2. The number of blacks vs. immigrants for a job at picking grapes is quite telling. It displays what people see as options. Most Black Americans see a day laborer position as one of several employment options. Most immigrants see the same job as one of a few employment options. Because of external barriers (language, education, legal status), immigrants are blocked from employment of many better-paying jobs. Most Black Americans donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t see these same external barriers. This leads to my third point.

3. The public system does not equip most inner-city students with the skills to obtain better-paying jobs. Despite a diploma, many students are not equipped but the math, English and basic work ethic skills to work in positions where the pay is higher than minimum wage. The students and their parents look at a high school diploma as a ticket to a better job than at fast food restaurants. So when we go to McDonaldÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s and receive poor service, it is the attitude of the workers. The customer thinks the employee should be happy working in the establishment and we frown at the display of indifference of the employees. [I think this is what GN was referring to about the contempt of whites and elite blacks toward the poor blacks.] The employee cannot understand why he/she is forced to work at these wages and others have better positions with the same level of education. What the employee doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t grasp is his diploma is not equal to another diploma from another school system or even another school in the same school district.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allow me to add my two cents to the discussion.</p>
<p>1. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think you mean that the work habits of most blacks are different in purpose and intensity. The examples given have been lower-pay employees. That does not infer that Mr. Parsons of TimeWarner works less than his white CEO counterpart or Senator Obama works less than Senator Salazar. I believe the point is that the work habits of most black folk in <b>low wage jobs</b> are different in purpose and intensity than immigrants.</p>
<p>2. The number of blacks vs. immigrants for a job at picking grapes is quite telling. It displays what people see as options. Most Black Americans see a day laborer position as one of several employment options. Most immigrants see the same job as one of a few employment options. Because of external barriers (language, education, legal status), immigrants are blocked from employment of many better-paying jobs. Most Black Americans donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t see these same external barriers. This leads to my third point.</p>
<p>3. The public system does not equip most inner-city students with the skills to obtain better-paying jobs. Despite a diploma, many students are not equipped but the math, English and basic work ethic skills to work in positions where the pay is higher than minimum wage. The students and their parents look at a high school diploma as a ticket to a better job than at fast food restaurants. So when we go to McDonaldÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s and receive poor service, it is the attitude of the workers. The customer thinks the employee should be happy working in the establishment and we frown at the display of indifference of the employees. [I think this is what GN was referring to about the contempt of whites and elite blacks toward the poor blacks.] The employee cannot understand why he/she is forced to work at these wages and others have better positions with the same level of education. What the employee doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t grasp is his diploma is not equal to another diploma from another school system or even another school in the same school district.</p>
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		<title>By: GN</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8408</link>
		<dc:creator>GN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2005 23:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8408</guid>
		<description>EG and Duane, both of you have given me something to think about.



EG, you have a point: why wait until high school to intervene?  Why not "adopt" elementary and junior high (middle) schools?  Although I think attention, resources and mentoring can still yield results at a high school level, you are correct, why not intervene earlier?



Duane, I think there needs to be a balance between addressing the external versus internal influences which assault our community.  My point is that I can't see how one can truly separate the two: there is a causal relationship between the residues of slavery and a society which still victimizes African Americans and the victimization that we inflict upon ourselves.  Too many analyses are all too ready to address the internal issues while minimizing the external ones.  I don't think there are easy, clear-cut answers to our crisis: one the on hand, there are some African Americans who I myself want to shake some sense into; on the other, I have to realize that most African Americans don't have it easy in this country, and impoverished African Americans fight battles of which I can only speculate because I have no idea how difficult their lives are.



I admit that I tend to knee-jerk on this issue, and err on the side of giving African Americans, particularly those who are poor, some latitude when analyzing their struggles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EG and Duane, both of you have given me something to think about.</p>
<p>EG, you have a point: why wait until high school to intervene?  Why not &#8220;adopt&#8221; elementary and junior high (middle) schools?  Although I think attention, resources and mentoring can still yield results at a high school level, you are correct, why not intervene earlier?</p>
<p>Duane, I think there needs to be a balance between addressing the external versus internal influences which assault our community.  My point is that I can&#8217;t see how one can truly separate the two: there is a causal relationship between the residues of slavery and a society which still victimizes African Americans and the victimization that we inflict upon ourselves.  Too many analyses are all too ready to address the internal issues while minimizing the external ones.  I don&#8217;t think there are easy, clear-cut answers to our crisis: one the on hand, there are some African Americans who I myself want to shake some sense into; on the other, I have to realize that most African Americans don&#8217;t have it easy in this country, and impoverished African Americans fight battles of which I can only speculate because I have no idea how difficult their lives are.</p>
<p>I admit that I tend to knee-jerk on this issue, and err on the side of giving African Americans, particularly those who are poor, some latitude when analyzing their struggles.</p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8409</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2005 22:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8409</guid>
		<description>GN,



You left one important word out when you mentioned "African-American empowerment" It actually was African-American &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;self &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;reliance. Here is a little more on that important aspect:



&lt;blockquote&gt;"...the BPP organized community programs ranging from free breakfast for children, to free health clinics, to rent strikes resulting  in tenant ownership of their buildings, to Liberation School for grade-schoolers, to free clothing drives, to campaigns for community control of schools, community control of police, and campaigns to stop drugs, crime, and police murder and brutality in the various Black colonies across America."&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Now I will be the first to tell you that I disagree with much of the BPP philosophy (including what you had already mentioned), but the black self reliance part is pure gold.



What good is it for us black folk to talk about how strong of a people we are and how our people back in the day were kings and queens and yet today we subject all of that rich history to what goes on in Washington? There is no doubt in my mind that you are quite intelligent and are mature in discussing these issue. One thing really puzzles me in your argument--you fail to address the self-infliction that we put on ourselves (black on black crime, our men impregnating our women, but in many cases fail to stay to raise the child, communities that constantly stay in shambles because WE will not clean them, etc. etc. etc.). Before you answer, I want you to really give that a whole lot of thought. Slavery was very wrong and no doubt it did create a cycle in our community, but guess what? We know nothing of slavery beyond what we read in books. It isn't white people that is making our men impregnate our women and leave them. It isn't white people that is placing the crack pipe in our mouths. Think on this, if you had a child from a brotha and one day he just left you altogether, would you say that was the white man's fault or his?



At some point, we have to shoulder the blame--rich or poor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GN,</p>
<p>You left one important word out when you mentioned &#8220;African-American empowerment&#8221; It actually was African-American <b><i>self </i></b>reliance. Here is a little more on that important aspect:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;&#8230;the BPP organized community programs ranging from free breakfast for children, to free health clinics, to rent strikes resulting  in tenant ownership of their buildings, to Liberation School for grade-schoolers, to free clothing drives, to campaigns for community control of schools, community control of police, and campaigns to stop drugs, crime, and police murder and brutality in the various Black colonies across America.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Now I will be the first to tell you that I disagree with much of the BPP philosophy (including what you had already mentioned), but the black self reliance part is pure gold.</p>
<p>What good is it for us black folk to talk about how strong of a people we are and how our people back in the day were kings and queens and yet today we subject all of that rich history to what goes on in Washington? There is no doubt in my mind that you are quite intelligent and are mature in discussing these issue. One thing really puzzles me in your argument&#8211;you fail to address the self-infliction that we put on ourselves (black on black crime, our men impregnating our women, but in many cases fail to stay to raise the child, communities that constantly stay in shambles because WE will not clean them, etc. etc. etc.). Before you answer, I want you to really give that a whole lot of thought. Slavery was very wrong and no doubt it did create a cycle in our community, but guess what? We know nothing of slavery beyond what we read in books. It isn&#8217;t white people that is making our men impregnate our women and leave them. It isn&#8217;t white people that is placing the crack pipe in our mouths. Think on this, if you had a child from a brotha and one day he just left you altogether, would you say that was the white man&#8217;s fault or his?</p>
<p>At some point, we have to shoulder the blame&#8211;rich or poor.</p>
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		<title>By: GN</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8406</link>
		<dc:creator>GN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2005 19:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8406</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I guess IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m missing something here. The association should adopt a school and provide a solution. A solution to what?&lt;/i&gt;



You and me both.  We're missing...my coherence.  I could have elaborated that point in a better fashion.



Loni Guinier wrote an essay, Admissions Rituals as Political Acts, advancing a theory that corporate "adoption" of poor-performing high schools is one solution to the African American educational crisis and would perform far better than most educational affirmative action programs.  Basically, by "adopting" a high school, organizations and corporations provide the school with necessities, such as current textbooks and other teaching supplies.  This liaison also offers the organization the opportunity to mentor the children and ensure that they are truly learning the skills set necessary for economic survival.



There is a case in point of this idea: an Atlanta corporation adopted an extremely low-performing high school and was able to manufacture impressive results.  I'll comment later with links to the story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I guess IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m missing something here. The association should adopt a school and provide a solution. A solution to what?</i></p>
<p>You and me both.  We&#8217;re missing&#8230;my coherence.  I could have elaborated that point in a better fashion.</p>
<p>Loni Guinier wrote an essay, Admissions Rituals as Political Acts, advancing a theory that corporate &#8220;adoption&#8221; of poor-performing high schools is one solution to the African American educational crisis and would perform far better than most educational affirmative action programs.  Basically, by &#8220;adopting&#8221; a high school, organizations and corporations provide the school with necessities, such as current textbooks and other teaching supplies.  This liaison also offers the organization the opportunity to mentor the children and ensure that they are truly learning the skills set necessary for economic survival.</p>
<p>There is a case in point of this idea: an Atlanta corporation adopted an extremely low-performing high school and was able to manufacture impressive results.  I&#8217;ll comment later with links to the story.</p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8405</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2005 18:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8405</guid>
		<description>GN,



This may seem like a silly question, but trust me I am not trying to demean you by asking. There is a point to it.



Do you have any admiration for the black panther party? Why or why not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GN,</p>
<p>This may seem like a silly question, but trust me I am not trying to demean you by asking. There is a point to it.</p>
<p>Do you have any admiration for the black panther party? Why or why not?</p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/05/25/commentary-black-workers-hurt-themselves-by-not-taking-bottom-rung-jobs-tannette-johnson-elie/#comment-8407</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2005 17:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=766#comment-8407</guid>
		<description>GN,

You just have to type in your comments once. It will show up once I approve it. I had to do it this way because of the large volume of spam I get on this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GN,</p>
<p>You just have to type in your comments once. It will show up once I approve it. I had to do it this way because of the large volume of spam I get on this site.</p>
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