The press is so powerful in its image-making role, it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal.
— Malcolm X (1964)
For the longest time, we have been hearing about the “systematic means of torture” that America has been conducting in places like Gitmo, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Fueled by the Liberal ideology, much of the press along with so-called non partisan organizations like Amnesty International have been very quick to tell the world of the horrors of how America has been treating these prisoners of war who do no abide by guidelines drafted by the Geneva Convention. Critics have found it easy to condemn America’s non-traditional tactics, but at the same time run from the basic question “how do you extract information that could save millions of lives from a person who has been trained not to respond to traditional methods of extraction?” American military personnel are forced to answer this question everyday in the heat of war while critics volley their criticisms from their safe bunkers (i.e. a cubical) in some office suite outside of the war zone.
As I mentioned earlier, leftest will not discuss the fact that jihadist are trained not to respond to traditional means of questioning. In short, they have looked at the guidelines of the Geneva Convention and created their tactics around them. Basically, we are giving them a test where they already know the answers. Yet those who will flash facts and figures showing alleged case after case of torture at the hand of Americans somehow grow silent when it comes to presenting this type of information when it comes from the hands of terrorist. This whole thing plays right into the socialist ideology that tells us that if you are a leader, very rich, and not ashamed of that fact, (like America) then you are the oppressor.
America and its allies are in the midst of World War III against enemies who are trained from a very young age to believe that all westerners and non-Muslims are evil and must be killed. From under the age of 10 on up, many of our enemies in this war have brainwashed to strap on explosives and killed themselves along with many innocent civilians around them. Yet you will not see not one protest from anti-war activist condemning this type of activity. Instead of absorbing this reality, many Leftest prefer to take the “safe” approach to protest by comparing apples to oranges arguing that America has figuratively done the same thing.
We are dealing with an enemy who is actively trying to recreate another 9/11 both here and abroad and all the anti-war crowd can do is to preach the message that America and its soldiers are the ones spreading evil. At the same time, this crowd has been turning away from the daily harsh reality that the real torture has been taking place right under their noise for years. A discovery by our soldiers over the weekend provides yet another example of they type of enemy we are fighting.
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From: NY Times
Marines on an operation to eliminate insurgents that began Friday broke through the outside wall of a building in this small rural village to find a torture center equipped with electric wires, a noose, handcuffs, a 574-page jihad manual - and four beaten and shackled Iraqis.
The American military has found torture houses after invading towns heavily populated by insurgents - like Falluja, where the anti-insurgent assault last fall uncovered almost 20 such sites. But rarely have they come across victims who have lived to tell the tale.
The men said they told the marines, from Company K, Third Marines, Second Division, that they had been tortured with shocks and flogged with a strip of rubber for more than two weeks, unseen behind the windows of black glass. One of them, Ahmed Isa Fathil, 19, a former member of the new Iraqi Army, said he had been held and tortured there for 22 days. All the while, he said, his face was almost entirely taped over and his hands were cuffed.
In an interview with an embedded reporter just hours after he was freed, he said he had never seen the faces of his captors, who occasionally whispered at him, “We will kill you.” He said they did not question him, and he did not know what they wanted. Nor did he ever expect to be released.
“They kill somebody every day,” said Mr. Fathil, whose hands were so swollen he could not open a can of Coke offered to him by a marine. “They’ve killed a lot of people.”
From the house on Saturday, there could be heard sounds of fighting from the large-scale offensive to eliminate strongholds of insurgents, many of whom stream across Iraq’s porous border with Syria. [Page 10.]
As the marines walked through the house - a squat one-story building of sand-colored brick - the broken black window glass crunched under their boots. Light poured in, revealing walls and ceiling shredded by shrapnel from the blast they had set off to break in through a wall. Latex gloves were strewn on the floor. A kerosene lantern lay on its side, shattered.
The manual recovered - a fat, well-thumbed Arabic paperback - listed itself as the 2005 First Edition of “The Principles of Jihadist Philosophy,” by Abdel Rahman al-Ali. Its chapters included “How to Select the Best Hostage,” and “The Legitimacy of Cutting the Infidels’ Heads.”
Also recovered were several fake passports, a black hood, the painkiller Percoset, handcuffs and an explosives how-to-guide. Three cars loaded with explosives were parked in a garage outside the house. The marines blew them up (…more–may need to register)
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/special_packages/signe/11939974.htm
“how do you extract information that could save millions of lives from a person who has been trained not to respond to traditional methods of extraction?â€Â
A better quest to ask is What is right and what is wrong ? or Maybe what is effective and what is not effective?
The whole point of Gitmo is to be a legal gray area. Where neither US or International Law would seem to apply. Where the Executive could have complete autonomy. If that is not a recipe for Tyranny I don’t know what is. When on considers our history and sees Gitmo, one can only conclude that we are hypocrites. Gitmo is killing our reputation and credibility. And convincing otherwise peaceful Muslims into joining the extremists.
“A better quest to ask is What is right and what is wrong ? “
That was already determined by the Geneva Convention; however, jihadist do not abide by that convention. Why should we if we are to win this war?
There is no reset button for this war.
rhythm,
And your point is….?
I’ve got to take exception to BH’s comment. Why is Gitmo a gray area? It is a prison camp on territory of the United States. We haven’t kept it a secret. Our torture? We give them a koran and a prayer rug. We paint an arrow in every cell so they know where Mecca is. We play loud rap music for two days. Yep, that makes us Nazis. Recipe for tyranny? One thinks that someone overstates the case. Also, complete autonomy? Complete autonomy would mean, to me at least, complete secrecy. We’d never know Gitmo existed, much less what went on there.
Try again.
PS. Just found this site. I am impressed. Will be returning.
That was already determined by the Geneva Convention; however, jihadist do not abide by that convention. Why should we if we are to win this war?
Duane:
Because we are not going to win the war by simply killing or torturing the enemy. Or those we perceive to be the enemy. By doing so we only make more insurgents and terrorist. We must change how we are perceived in the world. hat is done by act more just as a Nation.
Doug:
Why is Gitmo a gray area? It is a prison camp on territory of the United States.
It s a gray area because if it where a US territory the US Constitution would be in force there. It is not. Neither is International Law. People can be taken there and held with out benefit of counsel indefinably. With out trial or any means to contest thier status. Where else in the whole world can this happen legally ? Notice I haven’t even mentioned the torture.
BH,
How?
I think we can all agree that torture is not pleasant, BUT here are the differences here: jihadist torture to kill, the US tortures to get information that will save lives. I’m all down with the humanity bit, but I have yet to hear from anybody another way to extract information from people who have been trained for years not to respond to traditional methods of questioning. The bright light in a dark room does not work (what’s funny is that if they did use the bright light/dark room approach, people will be up in arms about that accusing the US for damaging their eyesight.).
So again, I ask the question: How?
How indeed? Torture is not a reliable way to extract information. When you are totured you will say ANYTHING to make it stop. I suppose if you have useful information you will probably give it up. But if you don’t what do say? you lie. you give up the cab driver who lives down the street. Or anybody. And they get snatched too.
Torture seems reasonable when you assume everyone in Gitmo is guilty. But that is not known for sure. And there is no processes to dertermine who is guilty of anything.
But there has been information already extracted that has helped to track down other terrorist as well as prevented some future attacks.
I think it is very healthy for the American public to hold the goings on in gitmo accountable to some sense of sanity. But at the same time, if there is proof that the info extracted has saved lives, tracked down terrorists, and prevented future attacks, I say continue to use any means necessary to get the info.
That show 24 had a similar situation in one of the final episodes (I don’t know if you watched it or not–pretty good show, but too many unrealistic twists)
What evidence? Nobody outside of the Administration knows anything about what is going in Gitmo. HOw does the public know if the intel we got about any of the VERY few raids we are allowed to know about resulted from torture or even from Gitmo at all?
I am a 24 fiend (Gotta love a show with a Black President
)
Duane, excellent article!
Doug, keep returning to Duanes site I assure you it’s one of the best.
BH, Gitmo is no grey area.
It exists for a specific purpose and that purpose is being fulfilled very well
The Geneva Convention btw applies only to those who are a signatory of the convention.
The Taliban and Ossama’s band of merry men have not signed the convention of course and are then not at all covered by the convention.
Here is a fantasy field trip.
If you could go to Rikers Island and witness daily life there and then go to Gitmo and witness daily life there.
Guess which prision you would choose.
BH,
According to some of the press conferences that I have seen, they have obtained information that have led them to terrorist safe houses, location of some of their top leaders, weapons caches, etc. (You will have to do a search yourself to find out the particulars).