I’m embarrassing MYself??? LOL.. You, as usual, have a twisted sense of reality. I’ll leave you to it.

Atlanta has what is called I believe the one-stop-something-shop. I cannot remember the exact name. I spent about 1/2 of an hour there listening to someone telling me where I could go to learn how to write a business plan. When he was done and over with, I decided to do the rest of the work on my own because the same goal was achievable by using my local library and my own access to the internet–which I did. Besides, this has nothing to do with the point I made in comment #23 which I even bolded for you. You made the connection between that organization (which I would have no problems crediting if it were the case), that clearly did not exist. What you also missed was my overall point in the post you referenced that while the program was a good one, Obama was simply reinventing icewater for proposing to do what has already been implemented in other cities.

But yes, I did use the word “use”, but your assumptions took over from there.

Again, you are really embarrassing yourself here. Leave the issue alone.

Public/Private business incubators

Oh my goodness! EVERYTHING he is proposing here is already being implemented in cities across America. I used it in Atlanta and saw something very similar to it in Colorado. I think that he just invented ice water here.

You said this in the post titled:
“Sooooo, are we to vote for Obama because he is Black or what?”

I know how to use search too…. So either you were wrong/lying then or you are wrong/lying now. But don’t get mad at me for bringing it up. Either way it is not a big deal. How about you calm down…

Again, I never said such a thing.

I am begging you to stop.

As for your business… I was referring to you saying something about using a business incubator which Obama had proposed makeng available in inner cities… I believe you said you used a similar program in Atlanta.

Beating around the bush? I gave you a complete answer. The problem here is that you disagree with what I am telling you. So you discount it. The same fingers you use to defend Obama at every turn are suddenly too paralyzed to check the complete historical account of the civil rights movement. So you continue to peddle an incomplete historical account.

It does not change the fact that, even the bad ones, have helped a lot of people. Even yourself. You have said yourself that you have used government programs, federal and state to help both when you were down on your luck and to help you start a business. Obviously if they worked fine for you then they probably help a lot of other people too

Again, you are lumping a whole bunch of things together to make a point. For starters, I NEVER, NEVER said that government helped me to start a business. The money I used came from my own savings. Did I ever say that welfare should be cut? No. Did I ever say that medicare should be cut? No. Instead, what have I been telling you from day one.

Calm down, relax and follow closely. I’ll even bold it for you.

Instead of throwing more money into these programs in an attempt to fix it, we should first eliminate what does not work. Second, what does work–fund it. This is far from what your boy Obama is proposing: both as it relates to public schools and health care. Democrats fear this approach because they are more concerned with not appearing mean than being practical. Republicans have fallen into the same trap.

I am middle-class and based on my paycheck this could not be further from the truth. And let’s forget the major role they played in begging the mortgage industry to provide subprime loans in the first place. And who has that affected the most? The middle class.

Most Black people happen to be middle-class, which is why (in part) they’ve been voting for Democrats of late.

I think it is a lot more deeper than that. Most Blacks vote for Democrats because the smear campaign that suggests anything other than Democratic party is racist. Now this may not be your reasoning, but it sure represents most Blacks I have encountered who cannot tell me one thing coming from Republicans they feel has held them back AS INDIVIDUALS. Like you, they feel the need to speak for others who oftentimes don’t give a rip.

For these voters the Democrats’ emphasis on consumer/worker/
human rights and expansion of access to capital (e.g.; grants & loans for higher ed) are perceived by middle-class urban voters (incl. Blacks) as effective governance..

Perception and reality are two different things here. While loans, grants, etc. for Blacks are often pushed by Democrats, they equally play the other side of the coin. For example, by pushing for legislation to lower college tuition, taxpayers are still ultimately left to make up the difference in some form or fashion. Plus, you must also take into consideration that Democrats must also be careful not to cut into the salaries of teachers within the college/university system. This particular drama is being played out right now in CA. Currently, Democrats are proposing a car tax to make up the difference. Now add to that drama the trend of colleges lowering standards so that those who they perceive as victims are given a fair shot. In the meantime, many of our scientists, doctors, etc. come from overseas partly due to the fact that what we are graduating here is not qualified. But we are to all of a sudden feel some racial pride because they are people of color?

As far as grants go as it relates to business. A good thing. But, once again, Democrats believe that the more you make, the more you should pay in taxes.

Actually, this is your basic counterargument to any critique of conservative and/or Republican policy. You just don’t have the fortitude to spell it out explicitly.

Nope! This is my response to critiques over conservative/Republican policies coming from a person who is too afraid to acknowledge his leftist tendencies. As far as “spelling it out”, the question you wanted me to ask you was a poor assumption on your part in your attempt to see something that simply was not there.

Here (again) is where you don’t understand what the parties are about. “Blacks on the Left” don’t direct the Democratic Party… even on the local level.

You are right, they don’t direct the party. They just support it and will defend it just as you have been doing with this thread.

That’s a thoroughly ahistoric and inaccurate compendium of the parties’ evolution.

This is what the party IS. You are clearly on something if you do not think that Democrats are not just as loyal to their wealthy constituents as the Republican party .

I’m going to refrain from further comment on this thread because it’s clear you’re just signifying and saying nothing of substance. You’re not even willing to concede the obvious — neither about Democratic voters nor yourself. You’re in no position to be so condescending.

Okay, can I laugh now?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

I just love how you constantly will accuse me of not saying anything of substance, accuse me of insulting your intelligence (while, I might add assume that other readers feel the same way as you). Yet you will drag on a conversation like this to the point of frustration. Un-freakin-believable.

You’re not even willing to concede the obvious — neither about Democratic voters nor yourself.

I am not the one who needs to do the conceding here. You are the one that regularly defend Democrats and liberals on this site and I am supposed to believe that you speaking mater-of-factly for both. I have no problem with admitting my support here of conservative values and have called out conservatives when I feel they have strayed away from those principals. You on the other hand have made your position clear here time and time again. The insult on intelligence is not coming from me.

Under-performing schools - Schools that have a long history of producing kids that can barely read or write. As a conservative, I believe that you must pull the plug (Obama does not believe that btw) and give these parents better options–mind you the same options members of the CBC and the rest of the Democratic party have enjoyed for years.

AIDS pervention programs - Democrats have been behind programs that throw millions of dollars to AIDS prevention programs that have not done a thing to slow the trend of AIDS in the Black community. This is an individual choice issue and not one you or I should be paying for.

Gang prevention programs - Here in the Los Angeles area, the city has spent billions of dollars over the last decade and yet the problem has gotten worse.

Green-lighting an open borders policy at the expense of Blacks - Many of the public schools here in SoCal are filled with children whose parents are here illegally. This has created a lot of tension between the two groups because for one, resourses that could be used to better the school as a whole to serve the immediate community are being funneled to programs for Spanish-only learners.

This open-borders policy also has affected our health care system as border states have put out millions of tax payer dollars to serve another country’s citizens.

Please understand that these are just a few examples as I am in the middle of doing several things besides writing this comment.

In the meantime, here is a great question for you. Name the programs you feel conservatives are want to take down that are detrimental to the success of the Black community.

It came from “liberal” legislation and “liberal” judges that FORCED white people in this country to treat us fairly…

You are forgetting that the Republican party also played a critical role in the struggle for civil rights. I’ll leave the history lesson for you to research for yourself if you really want to know.

So yea.. We have gotten something out of the deal

What you got out of the deal was for all the Geraldine Ferraro’s of the world (and there are a whooooole lot of them) to remind you that because of THEIR good graces, not your own efforts, you are where you are today. If that is something worth grinning about, knock yourself out.

So what have “conservatives” done to contribute to the black successes that we DO have?

Again, I am not going to give you a whole laundry list here because of time. But I will say this. Like MLK, I believe that we should live in a country where folks are not judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Democrats (as we have seen in these last few weeks have made color–not character–the central issue). I also believe what the Urban league used to believe as it related to affirmative action. The following was taken from the book “The Ten Things You Can’t Say in America”

Whitney Young, the founder of the Urban League, was one of the first blacks to push for an affirmative action plan. In Ending Affirmative Action, writer Terry Eastland says that Young called for a “compensatory, preferential Marshall Plan for black America.” In 1963, Young urged a “decade” of preferences to level the playing field. A decade! That would have ended affirmative action in 1973! Young’s board of directors, however, revolted. The president of the Urban League in Pittsburgh said the demand for affirmative action would cause the public to quite properly ask, ‘What the blazes are these guys up to? They tell us that for years that we must buy [non-discrimination] and then they say, ‘It isn’t what we want.’ A member of the Urban League in New York objected to what he called ‘the heart of it –the business of employing Negroes [because they are Negroes].’

I want government that is out of my way and out of my life. My family and I are a living testimony that as long as a person in this country has the desire and drive to make it, the sky is the limit. These are just some of the core values of the conservative movement that I firmly believe in. As I have been discussing on this site for a good while now, the Republican party has moved on and made many of these values expendable, which is why I no longer will be voting for Republicans, unless they change their course of action. The success of individuals (regardless of race) is not predicated on the ups and downs of politics. When we have arrived at that conclusion, we are setting ourselves up for perpetual disappointment.

The ultimate goal of a political party is to use the various mechanisms of gov’t to affect policies favorable to its constituents. Winning elections is just a means to an end. And even allowing for winning contests, the victors are constrained by the various checks and balances built into American gov’t (on all levels). The point being neither party has unilateral authority on any level — even when one side or another appears to dominate elections.

The other item you continue to overlook or disregard is Republicans and Democrats represent different constituencies; the GOP advocates on behalf of plutocrats, while Democrats defend middle-class sensibilities. Neither focuses much on the American underclass — of which Black people are disproportional to their whole numbers. Most Black people happen to be middle-class, which is why (in part) they’ve been voting for Democrats of late. For these voters the Democrats’ emphasis on consumer/worker/
human rights and expansion of access to capital (e.g.; grants & loans for higher ed) are perceived by middle-class urban voters (incl. Blacks) as effective governance. I suggest those ‘middle class sensibilities’ are the common bond of Democrat voters and shaped through the process of negotiation with sometimes rival interests. Still, the Democratic Party is a private organization where membership or affiliation is voluntary. You pay your money… you take your chances. So too is the Republican Party.

“I never suggested at all that Democrats have taken Blacks for granted…”

Actually, this is your basic counterargument to any critique of conservative and/or Republican policy. You just don’t have the fortitude to spell it out explicitly.

“The bigger issue here is what has their so-called attention to Black needs produced?”

See earlier remarks on ‘consumer/worker/human rights’ and ‘access to capital’.

“Having people of color in chairman positions of various committees in DC to having Black mayors, Black congressmen, Black Senators has produced little in regards to addressing such needs BASED ON THE FORMULA ESTABLISHED BY BLACKS ON THE LEFT.”

Here (again) is where you don’t understand what the parties are about. “Blacks on the Left” don’t direct the Democratic Party… even on the local level. The party isn’t philosophical in that sense. It’s about economic sensibilities.

“For years, the GOP has relied on a strategy whose foundation is largely based on the fact that Whites make up a majority of this nation. On the other hand, Democrats have also built their strength on the wealthy–FIRST. In addition they have pulled in minority groups, unions, and any other group that does not agree with the GOP.”

That’s a thoroughly ahistoric and inaccurate compendium of the parties’ evolution.

“… Democrats are just as wealthy and influential as Republicans and will use those resources in the same manner: securing a win.”

That’s not entirely accurate either.

I’m going to refrain from further comment on this thread because it’s clear you’re just signifying and saying nothing of substance. You’re not even willing to concede the obvious — neither about Democratic voters nor yourself. You’re in no position to be so condescending.